[Neon21db]

When listening to music (in the E92 specifically) in low to medium volume only, is the logic7 noticeably better than the 10 speaker stock? Or does the benefit of the logic7 come mainly from listening to music at loud volumes?

[///Matt]

The L7 has a center channel speaker on the dash. This makes ALL the difference in the world, as far as sound clarity, and surround presence are concerned.

Also, all the speakers (there are 13 in L7) are a much higher quality, so the sound is much more crisp, and clear, at all volumes.

I'm not sure about the equalizer/modes in the base version, but L7 has an excellent equalizer, and a three different "sound modes": music, cinema, and basic. The depth and presence of the music/dvd changes SIGNIFICANTLY when switching between the three.

Matt

[rrandyy]

L7 does sound better. To me, however, a $1,200 upgrade of the stereo is not worth it. Id say take a CD to the dealer. Listen in one car, walk around for 5 mins and then listen in another car. If you can't tell the different when you don't listen back to back, then theres no point.

Edit: if you can tell the difference, then you can decide on its value.

[Neon21db]

haha, too late now. i'm just trying to justify the fact that me not getting the logic7 isn't a big deal since i don't plan on totally blasting my music thus rendering the sound quality at low-medium volumes comparable to the logic7.

[06330i]

i have l7 and i love it. the bass is great and listening to any songs sounds great on the speakers. very clean sounds

[Yvette]

good I got the L7, except making buzzing sound passanger door front speaker

[ska///235i]

I didn't get L7 and I'm glad I saved $1200 ...not that the L7 is bad, just not worth the money, plus the std stereo is fine

[thd13]

Originally Posted by Neon21db

haha, too late now. i'm just trying to justify the fact that me not getting the logic7 isn't a big deal since i don't plan on totally blasting my music thus rendering the sound quality at low-medium volumes comparable to the logic7.

Personally, I really enjoy L7. I love music and I love to listen to it loud. With better quality speakers and more power, you are able to listen to the music at higher volumes without distortion. I am currently in a rental Azera and even though the premium Infinity sound system is decent, the L7 is far better.

If you're listening to music at low volumes, then it shouldn't really matter much. But once you get into the medium-higher volume ranges, it is always nice to have more power going into better quality speakers. With that said, even if you don't like the non-L7 system, you can always use the $1,200 you saved and put a nicer system into the car afterwards. And it shouldn't cost much more than that.

[Neon21db]

Originally Posted by thd13

Personally, I really enjoy L7. I love music and I love to listen to it loud. With better quality speakers and more power, you are able to listen to the music at higher volumes without distortion. I am currently in a rental Azera and even though the premium Infinity sound system is decent, the L7 is far better.

If you're listening to music at low volumes, then it shouldn't really matter much. But once you get into the medium-higher volume ranges, it is always nice to have more power going into better quality speakers. With that said, even if you don't like the non-L7 system, you can always use the $1,200 you saved and put a nicer system into the car afterwards. And it shouldn't cost much more than that.

Thanks thd13. I was told a system with noticeably better sound quality would cost around $2,100 (which includes professional installation). Do you have any experience with aftermarket car audio systems?

[thd13]

Originally Posted by Neon21db

Thanks thd13. I was told a system with noticeably better sound quality would cost around $2,100 (which includes professional installation). Do you have any experience with aftermarket car audio systems?

Not a problem. As you probably know, a lot of that $2,100 will be labor cost. Now depending on how much of an audiophile you are and how perfect you want the music to be, the price as I said, will vary.

In my 1996 non-Bose Maxima, I installed a new Head Unit, new cabin speakers, a Sub, and amps for the sub and speakers. I bought a lot of the items online through Fleabay and Crutchfield. BTW, Crutchfield is a great way to get the specs and retail prices of "commercial" audio equipment then go to ebay or other sites to search for good prices. By commercial, I do not mean the top-end equipment but not the Boss, Legacy, and Pyramid brands either. I had a Kenwood HU, Infinity Kappa speakers, a Kenwood amp, an Alpine amp, and an Infinity Sub. Like I said, none of these were by any means top of the line equipment, but I definitely had a great sounding system overall.

I spent $300 on the HU at Crutchfield (CF), $150 on two pairs of speakers (Ebay), $75 on the Sub (Ebay), $200 on sub-amp (Ebay), $250 on speaker-amp (Ebay). Add in another $50 for a sub-box, $100 for wiring and the total I spent was about $1125, give or take $100 bucks or so. Install would take probably a whole day. Mind you, these prices were as of 2000, and I know for a fact that many of these items are cheaper now, and there are better items for the same price as well.

I gave the car to my brother over a year ago when I got my E90 and all of these things are still working great! In my E90, since I had the L7, all I did was install a sub/amp and it makes a great difference in the bass of the audio system. I am not one of those types that set the gains on the amp at almost max and just crank the bass for people to hear from blocks away. But I know that the system that I installed is capable of doing so.

Sorry for the long post. To answer your question, yes, I do know a little bit about aftermarket audio systems. Please let me know if you have any other questions about installing a system. There are a few other folks here who I know, are also audio enthusiasts and will surely help.

[Neon21db]

For the amp, I was recommended the Zapco DC360.4 which retails $749 alone; what is opinion on that amp and which amp would you recommend? I was also told I need the Audio Control LC8 to install an aftermarket system. As for the sub, I have heard that underseat ones aren't very good and it's much better to get one for the trunk. But then the problem with that from what I have read is that the back seats are really well insulated which prevent the sub from doing what it's supposed to do. Any advice on that would be appreciated as well.

[Waldorf]

For what it's worth, i'm a sound engineer and i get extremely annoyed at poor sounding systems and overly DSP'ed music and found the stock system to have a much more pleasing sound than the Logic 7.

The Logic 7 has awful DSP artifacts and robs any music of its warmth. The stock system, while being a very standard sounding system, delivers the music much closer to it's real sound. It was the same story in 2003 when i was test-driving M3s and decided on the stock system so i can install my own favorite one instead.

They are both made by Harmon Kardon's asian sub-contractor and are very average components.

When my 335 arrives, she's going straight to the shop to get my Infinity components and Alpine amps installed. And this time, probably even a really good head unit, but only after having test the stock one with my gear.

[Neon21db]

Originally Posted by Waldorf

For what it's worth, i'm a sound engineer and i get extremely annoyed at poor sounding systems and overly DSP'ed music and found the stock system to have a much more pleasing sound than the Logic 7.

The Logic 7 has awful DSP artifacts and robs any music of its warmth. The stock system, while being a very standard sounding system, delivers the music much closer to it's real sound. It was the same story in 2003 when i was test-driving M3s and decided on the stock system so i can install my own favorite one instead.

They are both made by Harmon Kardon's asian sub-contractor and are very average components.

When my 335 arrives, she's going straight to the shop to get my Infinity components and Alpine amps installed. And this time, probably even a really good head unit, but only after having test the stock one with my gear.

Thanks Waldorf! Can you tell me exactly what components/model you are getting. Thanks.

[Waldorf]

biggest and loudest isn't always the greatest. usually it's the opposite.

I've had soem Alpine V12 amps since 2003 that I know I like and very clean so i'll be keeping those. I will not be keeping the Alpine 12" sub-woofer that i have because it makes my car sound too much like a dance club.

I currently haveThese Infinity component speakers that are absolutley amazing in terms of accuracy, color and texture. They sound very rich and a live recording sound like a live band in front of you instead of a movie theater as the Logic 7 sounds.

The whole surround sound frenzy has plagued the market and distorted the population's perception of what great sound is (just like the "more hp is better" plague that has distorted the population's perception of what makes a great car). The perfect sound system for MUSIC is made of a pair of tweeters, a pair of mids and a sub-woofer (10" in a 1cu' is the most accurate). Don't forget that car hifi is a major business and that 99.9% of what you see and read is marketing. Great audi has not really been surpassed in the last 20 years, it just has always been as expensive and out of the reach of most people.

Choosing an amplifier is also not easy:
-Analog is better (class A is good for a car)
-Don't bridge channels on anything but a sub-woofer. You don't get more punch and you get more distortion.
-Choose the power rating of your amplifier AFTER choosing your speakers. for example: if you choose a set of components that draw 75 watts then you should have a dual channel amplifier with ~100 watts per channel, more is better and safer as you amplifier is less likely to work hard and/or distort.
-Choose a good sub-woofer that is able to handle mid frequencies so that you can set your low-pass filter to a smooth curve.

BTW, the music i listen to is: Underground Hiphop, Acid Jazz, Soul, Blues and Classical (yes, in traffic it's godsent)

I may have missed some stuff (i'm at work after all) but please feel free to ask anything.

[thd13]

Originally Posted by Waldorf

biggest and loudest isn't always the greatest. usually it's the opposite.

I've had soem Alpine V12 amps since 2003 that I know I like and very clean so i'll be keeping those. I will not be keeping the Alpine 12" sub-woofer that i have because it makes my car sound too much like a dance club.

I currently haveThese Infinity component speakers that are absolutley amazing in terms of accuracy, color and texture. They sound very rich and a live recording sound like a live band in front of you instead of a movie theater as the Logic 7 sounds.

The whole surround sound frenzy has plagued the market and distorted the population's perception of what great sound is (just like the "more hp is better" plague that has distorted the population's perception of what makes a great car). The perfect sound system for MUSIC is made of a pair of tweeters, a pair of mids and a sub-woofer (10" in a 1cu' is the most accurate). Don't forget that car hifi is a major business and that 99.9% of what you see and read is marketing. Great audi has not really been surpassed in the last 20 years, it just has always been as expensive and out of the reach of most people.

Choosing an amplifier is also not easy:
-Analog is better (class A is good for a car)
-Don't bridge channels on anything but a sub-woofer. You don't get more punch and you get more distortion.
-Choose the power rating of your amplifier AFTER choosing your speakers. for example: if you choose a set of components that draw 75 watts then you should have a dual channel amplifier with ~100 watts per channel, more is better and safer as you amplifier is less likely to work hard and/or distort.
-Choose a good sub-woofer that is able to handle mid frequencies so that you can set your low-pass filter to a smooth curve.

BTW, the music i listen to is: Underground Hiphop, Acid Jazz, Soul, Blues and Classical (yes, in traffic it's godsent)

I may have missed some stuff (i'm at work after all) but please feel free to ask anything.

I concur that the Alpine V12 amps are great. I have 2 of them: MRD-M605 powering a single Infinity Perfect 10 Sub in the E90, and the MRV-F340 powering 4 Infinity Kappa 652.5is.

[Neon21db]

Waldorf, I agree that loudest isn't the best; I prefer quality over boom. For the amps, I see that all the models have x1, x2, x4... I'm assuminng that means how many speakers can be linked it to that amp? So for the E92 coupe, I would get an x4 amp? 2 front and 2 back speakers? I was recommended the Zapco DC360.4 amp. Could you check it out at http://www.zapco.com/ and let me know what you think. It retails for $749 which is pretty steep. Is there a comparable one that is much cheaper that you would recommend?

Are you going to get subs for the trunk or underseat ones? And as for the speakers, would the Infinity ones you referred to fit in the E92 (OEM look)?

[thd13]

Originally Posted by Neon21db

For the amp, I was recommended the Zapco DC360.4 which retails $749 alone; what is opinion on that amp and which amp would you recommend? I was also told I need the Audio Control LC8 to install an aftermarket system. As for the sub, I have heard that underseat ones aren't very good and it's much better to get one for the trunk. But then the problem with that from what I have read is that the back seats are really well insulated which prevent the sub from doing what it's supposed to do. Any advice on that would be appreciated as well.

I don't know much about the non-L7 E90 sound system, so I don't know if you'll need the Audio Control LC8. I'm not too sure of the wiring setup of the cabin speakers so I cannot comment on the difficulty of replacing the stock speakers. maybe someone who has replace the stock HU and speakers can shed some insight for us. Or anyone who knows if the wiring is a "conventional" method. I say this because I have read in a few threads that the wiring in E90s are fiber optics.

[whippersnapper]

I chose the Logic 7 upgrade. I didn't listen to either beforehand. I am certainly pleased with the sound even at low volumes. It is better than the Bose systems I have heard in a G35 and A4 in the past

[Waldorf]

Originally Posted by Neon21db

Waldorf, I agree that loudest isn't the best; I prefer quality over boom. For the amps, I see that all the models have x1, x2, x4... I'm assuminng that means how many speakers can be linked it to that amp? So for the E92 coupe, I would get an x4 amp? 2 front and 2 back speakers? I was recommended the Zapco DC360.4 amp. Could you check it out at http://www.zapco.com/ and let me know what you think. It retails for $749 which is pretty steep. Is there a comparable one that is much cheaper that you would recommend?

Are you going to get subs for the trunk or underseat ones? And as for the speakers, would the Infinity ones you referred to fit in the E92 (OEM look)?

I really could not comment on the Zapco equipment as i would have to hear it in a controlled enviroment (my recording, my speakers and a room that i know) and hook it up to testing equipment to have an opinion. But i can assure you that if you stick to something without a DSP in it and make sure that it's rated as Class A then you're on the right track.

my Apline amplifier for the front is also an MRV-F340 but i use only two of the four channels because i don't want to ruin the soundstage image with rear speakers. and rear passengers not even on my list of priorities.

for a sub-woofer, i would prefer a 10" in a 1cu' box in the trunk because LF waves (bass) takes a few feet to define themselves so the underseat woofers are a gimmick at best.

ah yes, wiring. i forgot about that. if you want quality all the way you will need to replace all wiring to big gauge wich has less resistance and much cleaner signal. some will cut the door wiring before and after the door frame and leave the OEM wire for a few inches to avoid having to mess with the worst part of the job. that's fine and only introduces negligable amount of resistance in the path. the amateur audiophile will not see a difference. especially if you listen to your music no louder than an acceptable 90db.

[Waldorf]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I chose the Logic 7 upgrade. I didn't listen to either beforehand. I am certainly pleased with the sound even at low volumes. It is better than the Bose systems I have heard in a G35 and A4 in the past

oh yes, BOSE in Audis are crap. I got caught once with it in my first Audi, the 2000 S3 and swore never to take it again. in the 2002 A4 i had the stock system and it was fine. and when i ordered my 2004 S4 i took it with the stock system as well and installe dthe Alpine/Infinity combo. now it's my current A4 and will be making its way to the 335 in February.

[rrandyy]

Originally Posted by Waldorf

I really could not comment on the Zapco equipment as i would have to hear it in a controlled enviroment (my recording, my speakers and a room that i know) and hook it up to testing equipment to have an opinion.

Whats the advantage of having better audio equipment if the only time you can tell the different is in a quiet room in a lab somewhere using test equipment to analyze it? If you can't tell the difference between that and some other equipment when installed in the car going 45mph, its no better.

[thd13]

Originally Posted by whippersnapper

I chose the Logic 7 upgrade. I didn't listen to either beforehand. I am certainly pleased with the sound even at low volumes. It is better than the Bose systems I have heard in a G35 and A4 in the past

+1 Bose is over-rated and over-priced.